A Few Words with John Osander

Interview by Joel Van Valin

John Osander is a Minnesota native who has lived much of his life back East. A Yale graduate who asked to do his thesis on F. Scott Fitzgerald (he was refused—Fitzgerald’s reputation had not been established yet) he’s recently moved back to Minneapolis. He’s taught or administered at Macalester, Princeton, Harvard, Rider, St. Thomas and the University of Minnesota, and served as Senior Deputy to the President of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. Somewhere in all this he also found time to write a dozen or so novels, two of which have been published (Country Matters, which takes place in Minneapolis in the ‘50s, and Call Me Kick!, reviewed above). Whistling Shade editor Joel Van Valin was able to reach him by phone and ask a few questions concerning Kick and St. Paul in the ‘30s.

WS: Many of the characters in Call Me Kick! are historical, and others are from Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby. Kick, however is wholly original. How did you create such a memorable character?

Osander: She grew. I had a character called Sal that lived in Kenwood, Chicago in 1922. I had her in mind eight years ago and she was kind of sassy and direct, though there was no uncle Nick. Kick really started with Nick. He needed a niece, someone devoted to him, not like him necessarily but able to get along with him. But she needed material, scenes. Once she was showing up at Hershey’s with Marie and Jordan she had something to react to and she was off. So the spunky part comes from Sal and the other things come from the story.

WS: Speaking of Fitzgerald, why did you go to all the trouble of getting permission to use Nick Carraway and other characters from Gatsby? Why not just have similar characters with different names?

Osander: I debated that. I wasn’t sure I needed that background. Yet somehow or other as I worked I felt I needed the sensibility of Nick. I suppose I could have called him someone else—but in writing it I found Kick needed someone to work against. I knew what Nick was like. At some point I took out the last names. None of the Fitzgerald characters have last names. By not giving them last names at least I had something to start from. If I hadn’t gotten permission for Nick I would have moved away from that character. Originally I was worried about people in the book who are still alive. My lawyer was more concerned about the Fitzgerald characters. So we wrote to the estate to get permission.

WS: Gangsters play a significant part in Kick and you obviously studied them a great deal. Why do you think the American public is so fascinated with mobster personalities? Do you think today’s gang leaders will be equally renowned in sixty years?

Osander: What fascinates the American public is something active and romantic, the Robin Hood image. Dillinger was referred to as a Robin Hood type. In the ‘30s people hated banks, and when mobsters robbed a bank there was little sympathy from the public. Then there were all the names—Ma Barker, Pretty Boy Floyd, Baby Face Nelson and so on. I couldn’t name a drug czar. I think Dillinger will have more lasting fame than the Mafia bosses—they stay in the background. These characters liked to be public personalties. Mary Kinder for example was delighted when she made the Most Wanted list. But after the ‘34-‘35 kidnappings the fascination and applause for the gangs began to sour, at least in St. Paul.

WS: If you could spend a day in St. Paul in 1934, where would you go? What would you do?

Osander: I’d stop at Mickey’s diner for a great greasy breakfast and then—I’m a golfer you know—head to the Town and Country Club, one of the oldest courses in the west. I’d play the course. If I was young enough I’d stop by the Commodore and University Club and see what the kids were up to—dancing or mixer parties. In the evening it would be fun to check out the caves—going to one of the clubs in the caves with a date would be neat. And last, stop off at Smith’s icecream parlor (that’s the Smith they named Smith Avenue after, by the way).

WS: What should we expect next from John Osander? Will we hear more from Kick?

Osander: I don’t think so. I see Kick as getting through that summer and going to college at Brown (Penbroke as the college was called then) and coming back to St. Paul, or getting a babysitting job at Cape Cod. That’s when she would write the book. Then the rest of her life is normal—married, kids and such. Next book—a very small cast, and in third person. I usually get my characters out of a real place and time. I’m doing a bit of research on the 1880 World’s Fair. The song ‘America the Beautiful’ came out of that fair. Then there was this plane that crashed when I was a kid in a blizzard. I’ve been doing research on that. Place first, time second. And you don’t have anything until you know your character, and what your character wants.

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